Results 1 to 18 of 18
Like Tree4Likes
  • 3 Post By ophiuchus
  • 1 Post By Schwanke668

Thread: meditation - a guide/introduction to Tao and Zen

  1. #1
    Moderator ophiuchus's Avatar
    Join Date
    2006 Nov
    Location
    in your mind
    Posts
    2,307

    meditation - a guide/introduction to Tao and Zen

    OK! you guys asked, and i have listened to your wishes. that is, in trying to dream up as best i can, a guide to help one in their meditations. so here it is. i should note that in presenting my opinion, i may wish to draw upon sources more knowledgeable than my own, to drive my original point home a little more properly.

    *before you begin, i ask one simple thing of you, and i hope that you take it seriously. please read this sober.

    a thing that i'd like to have understood before any further progress is made here, is obviously, what i think meditation really is, or how i view meditation. this is rather opposed to the classical belief that one must sit down and close the eyes, and going further memorize a number of poses, mudras (hand positions), or mantras (rhythmical sayings). no no, that is not to say that these things are not useful, but i do not believe that these things alone, at their core, ARE meditation. quite the contrary. these are EXERCISES that one may wish to perform while meditating, yet these are not meditations in and of themselves.

    in order to understand the word meditate, and also the way that i view it, we must draw upon etymology(study of origins of words) to get a better grasp on the implications of the word. we must dissect the word into digestible pieces. med-i-tate. the main part of the word being med. med, in latin, meaning to measure, limit, consider, or advise. "meditate" or a meditation, around the time of the 13th century, meant something along the lines of "discourse on a subject" or talking or giving a lesson about a subject, or to be knowledgeable of a topic to the point of being able to properly wield the information of a particular topic.

    so, now we are starting to get a bit of a view of what the word meditation means, but still not a complete view. but from what we have gathered so far, the WORD meditation deals pretty much explicitly with thought, as it relates to knowledge. to med-iate in a discussion is to be the judge or referee, to be the one who declares the way things are. but wait, this sounds strange doesn't it? we came here to meditate, right? not to judge and to think... this seems odd doesn't it? especially the word "med" being so versatile as to mean "to measure", as well as "to limit", and also "to advise"...

    well, that is the first hurdle. what can be gathered from this is that words do not truly, accurately convey anything, at least not how we perceive that things really are. in trying to dissect and analyze and measure things, we distance ourselves from the real world. an apple tree doesn't grow in increments of "inches" anymore than it grows in increments of "centimeters", which means neither are accurate evaluations of reality. useful, sure! we need to be able to communicate in order to work together. but does this really help anyone truly understand the world they are in? no! it only adds to the confusion. this is not to say however, that one should abandon all of the various systems we use in daily, because, even though they do not really relate to reality, they do still have a funny way of getting the job done. like this instructional, for example. to some it may come across as enlightening (i'd be humbly flattered), but actually very little of it so far has anything at all with the actual practice of meditation itself. if anything, it's more about what meditation is not. and naturally so! how can one tell the foreground without the background to contrast it?


    (one can skip the intro by going to 0:55)

    think parallel (on your own) of other systems now, and see that this same principle applies to ANY system used to describe, measure, quantify, explain reality. they are all practical systems, but none of them help you understand anything REAL! they only help you understand more things inside of the given system. but that's not what we came here to do is it? we want to meditate! which so far, is looking very different from the general first impression of meditation.

    so now that you have a basic example of, why one should not always trust the map as the territory, or rather you have a better understanding at least, of the relationship that is shared between the map and the territory, we can begin to get deeper into, what is implied when we say something like "meditation" or "to meditate", and most importantly, how we can actually begin to meditate practically, as well as incorporate what we really want into our lives.

    in order to do this, we must begin with thought. if one has the "power" to transform their thoughts, or rather, the awareness to view their thoughts with a certain clarity, to begin to understand where thoughts come from, then they have the power to change their relationship with the thoughts, and also the manner in which they perceive and interact with these thoughts. which ultimately turns into the manner in which they perceive and interact with the universe.

    to do this, one must find their true identity, or rather, in doing this one is finding their true identity. which is a process mind you, NOT a prerequisite. so dont be alarmed by thoughts of failure. instead do the opposite, keep your mind OPEN and clear, and, to do this, you must begin by ceasing the associating of yourself with the thoughts you have. you must know that the thoughts are not what you are. you are not the things that you think. one only becomes the product of their thoughts if they associate very strongly with their thoughts.



    well i hope that my text and that video shed some light on this matter, or at least gave a fresh perspective for viewing this matter, because i wish nothing more than for the entire world to one day find liberation from these feelings; the loaded archetypes, daemonic archetypes, or adverse "entities" as tolle put it. they're not a necessity, we can all live perfectly normal, happy lives without really having to change anything physically about ourselves. and once it begins, the effect snowballs, becomes contagious. once it gains momentum, the inner peace can begin to penetrate every person on this planet. even people whom others might judge as "evil" or "corrupt" or "parasitic". we can transcend these inherently BROKEN mindsets, we just have to know how. which really brings the discussion full circle now, to the act of meditation itself. sitting with the eyes closed is not a requirement, it is simply an easy way to direct ones attention to oneself, that is all. so long as these ideas are present and one sees their thought, lets it come, then as soon as they are aware of it, lets it go, then they are meditating, taking the middle path. neither over-thinking a situation before or after it happens, nor are they entirely thoughtless. as a situation arises, it is addressed with the necessary amount of energy, no more, no less, and that is that. after all one can only do what they can do, so ones attention is always best directed there, not to the things we cannot.

    i hope that from this, you have now gathered, that what you are really looking for is a state of mind, and not necessarily something to do, in the classical sense. this from which, inner peace and satisfaction can radiate. this mode of thinking and acting has several names, but for the sake of discussion, i will call it Tao, or Zen. Tao, if looked at etymologically (careful!) means something along the lines of means roughly "the way" or "to go". but remember, that there can never be THE way, because in dissecting the word, you have merely dissected a system, which we now know is not the same as reality.





    in conclusion, i'd like to wish you all the best. i hope that this has been enlightening, or at least offered as fresh perspective to such a popular yet elusive topic. i hope that you may all find practical ways to integrate this into your lives. thank you for taking the time to listen to my words, and the words of the people who have dedicated their lives to the topic.

    (original post edited and amended for ease and clarity)
    cannabis is an entheogen too!

    other places i visit:
    natmedtalk
    youtopia
    shroomery
    mycotopia
    entheogen-network

  2. #2
    Experienced Psychonaut IJesusChrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    2008 Jul
    Posts
    3,748

    Re: a guide to meditation / an introduction to Tao and Zen

    This was wonderful.

    I had been thinking earlier this year, and parrallel to Tolles' teachings, that there are no evil people - the ideologies they carry are, or can be, evil.

    I like his reinforcement of this - the larger the concepts are of ideologies, the easier it is to see there are no conspiracies, there are no bad things in the world, only carriers, like a virus it spreads, and it is up to the hyper-conscious to stop it.


    Thanks for this.
    I'm not here to make someone else rich.
    Art shop; Etsy.com/shop/jonhelander

  3. #3
    Moderator ophiuchus's Avatar
    Join Date
    2006 Nov
    Location
    in your mind
    Posts
    2,307

    Re: a guide to meditation / an introduction to Tao and Zen

    im glad you enjoyed it
    cannabis is an entheogen too!

    other places i visit:
    natmedtalk
    youtopia
    shroomery
    mycotopia
    entheogen-network

  4. #4
    Experienced Psychonaut IJesusChrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    2008 Jul
    Posts
    3,748

    Re: a guide to meditation / an introduction to Tao and Zen

    This has been a real big help the past few days, a whole new way of looking at thoughts!

    I've been having this picture of the "self" as a blob, a sphere. An outer ring around this sphere are these dashes of light, coming and going, these are the thoughts - and they come into existance, swim around, then crash on the self - affecting it, changing it.

    Whenever I get a negative thought (or positive one) I am realizing this is what is happening. Very good indeed. Enjoyed Tolle very much as he is also very adorable, like a baby panda
    I'm not here to make someone else rich.
    Art shop; Etsy.com/shop/jonhelander

  5. #5
    Schwanke668's Avatar
    Join Date
    2010 Dec
    Posts
    346

    Re: a guide to meditation / an introduction to Tao and Zen

    Quote Originally Posted by IJesusChrist
    This was wonderful.

    I had been thinking earlier this year, and parrallel to Tolles' teachings, that there are no evil people - the ideologies they carry are, or can be, evil.

    I like his reinforcement of this - the larger the concepts are of ideologies, the easier it is to see there are no conspiracies, there are no bad things in the world, only carriers, like a virus it spreads, and it is up to the hyper-conscious to stop it.


    Thanks for this.
    As much as my Christian upbringing would have you believe that we are all evil because of 'The Fall' by default and that we can only reach true goodness by 'getting saved'. I believe that what the Fall actually did (and for the record I see it as a metaphore not literal, common misconception of interpreting that passage) was give us all the potential and sometimes disposition towards evil. If evil is done to us and we are in a receptive state that evil translates into us and we can beget the evil in our lives. With that I think even the hardenest of horrible people would truly not be the way they are if they could truly grasp who they had become and have a path out of their habits.

    I guess I see the goodness in all things. Even those that have hurt me. As my wife puts it 'hurting people hurt'. People who have experienced abuse, abuse commonly. You grow up in a broken home you can sometimes feel as if everyone is out to get you and the only way to escape is to get them first.

    I was abused by pretty much everyone as a kid. Parents, neighbors, students, even teachers at school, several. Even the teachers would make fun of me, the principle picked on me. Kid's would smash food on my clothing, that kind of thing. My two best friends at the time were actually my least enemies. The two people that picked on me the least. They still picked on me, called me names, etc.

    Ive forgiven all of them and now only feel pitty for who they had been and hope they overcame whatever it was that drove them to do that.

    As for the meditation side of all of this. I must unfortunately admit that I did not watch the videos. I have no attention span for videos. Not even sure why I make my own I hate watching them lol. But I did read your post and I think I see a strong correlation between the way your describing 'the way' and 'the way' that I have found.

    My 'way' is a sense of inner awareness and acceptance of myself. Its a way of moving with the flow of all things and floating through experiences. Its about 'being'. That is 'to be'. But you cant 'be' on purpose. 'being' in this case is the absence of all will. Its 'experiencing'. Its such a pain to say in english. I assume you can say it in other languages. I can say it in tongues but I cant write it.

    God as in the bible calls himself "I AM". Which the original hebrew translates into "I AM, I WAS, and I WILL BE. All at the same time." He is everywhere and everywhen. I believe that when I 'be' in the meditative sense, I enter into his I AMness as I call it and 'flow' with him in the cosmos. I have actually experienced myself looking down on reality from outside of it. Seeing the entire cosmos below me expanding and contracting in a vibrant harmonic resonance. I have looked down on the earth and seen the earth rotating slowly. Satellites passing by, space station, etc.

    Literal? Metaphorical? No idea. And the point of meditation is it doesnt matter. Meditating is a state of mind. Its an awareness. A self awareness that grows into an all-awareness.

    I think 'getting there' can be different for different people since there is always a portion of uniqueness to everything we do and I think that the whole point of reaching 'a state of being' is 'being yourself' and you are unique!

    Anyway my nickle worth of two cents philosophy lol.
    Illegalsmile likes this.
    If you find my posts offensive or intimidating please feel free to go to your user control panel in the upper left hand corner and go to the foes section and add me to your foes. As a result you will mostly not see my posts and have less of a chance of being irritated by my drivel.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    2011 Apr
    Posts
    11

    Re: a guide to meditation / an introduction to Tao and Zen

    Well said, Allusion. The action of meditation is so different than what the word has come to describe, it's nice to hear this idea is shared with others.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    2012 Jan
    Posts
    15

    Re: a guide to meditation / an introduction to Tao and Zen

    I heard a lot about meditation but here I got the full picture of it.It really helps I know.My mother is regular with meditation.

  8. #8
    Moderator ophiuchus's Avatar
    Join Date
    2006 Nov
    Location
    in your mind
    Posts
    2,307

    Re: a guide to meditation / an introduction to Tao and Zen

    i should note that i have added some new information as well as edited my original post! removed nothing, but added a good bit. the original version was rather slapdash in my opinion, so i have gone back and refined the points that i originally made, as well as added a good bit of brand new material; if you liked the first version, please check out the original post again as i feel it is infinitely more informative as well as much easier to read! it's now a bit closer to how i originally intended it

    let me know what you guys think! thanks
    cannabis is an entheogen too!

    other places i visit:
    natmedtalk
    youtopia
    shroomery
    mycotopia
    entheogen-network

  9. #9
    Skilled Psychonaut KingLordMaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    2012 Mar
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    128

    Re: meditation - a guide/introduction to Tao and Zen

    Thank you for the post and the videos. Definitely helpful. Reading this at 11am with a nice cup of tea, sober. There you go, Step 1 of my meditation, sorted! :o
    The serpent's eyes, have seen many days
    And he tells us not to fear

    I wake in the morning, with thoughts of your face
    Shining through my eyes
    Like days of love, and light rain down

  10. #10
    Skilled Psychonaut Cultosaurus's Avatar
    Join Date
    2011 Sep
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    134

    Re: meditation - a guide/introduction to Tao and Zen

    ophiuchus -- Do you have any web sites on meditation or Ebook sites that have some good (free) books on the subject?
    A 'Coming out of Retirement' Psychonaughtical Traveler
    Mushrooms : They're ALL edible . .. . it's what happens afterward that's important.

  11. #11
    Moderator ophiuchus's Avatar
    Join Date
    2006 Nov
    Location
    in your mind
    Posts
    2,307

    Re: meditation - a guide/introduction to Tao and Zen

    i don't unfortunately... though i would recommend any material by alan watts. he has a multitude of full length videos there if you look. here are some of his earlier teachings, though when i first found him i watched and read his later teachings

    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ical+discourse

    simply typing "alan watts" will yield more recent works (more on meditation), but i figured i'd share those ^ cause they are harder to find without knowing the name...
    cannabis is an entheogen too!

    other places i visit:
    natmedtalk
    youtopia
    shroomery
    mycotopia
    entheogen-network

  12. #12
    Skilled Psychonaut Cultosaurus's Avatar
    Join Date
    2011 Sep
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    134

    Re: meditation - a guide/introduction to Tao and Zen

    Thanks, I appreciate that.

    sure wish I could debate with Schwanker ... it's so easy to dismantle his basis for information. But he hasn't been on since.
    A 'Coming out of Retirement' Psychonaughtical Traveler
    Mushrooms : They're ALL edible . .. . it's what happens afterward that's important.

  13. #13
    Moderator ophiuchus's Avatar
    Join Date
    2006 Nov
    Location
    in your mind
    Posts
    2,307

    Re: meditation - a guide/introduction to Tao and Zen

    yeah no prob!

    haha schwanke... yeah... it's funny how the offbeats never stay too long. maybe self realization drives them underground. one must be humble to go back and totally contradict themselves after being so un-open minded for so long.
    cannabis is an entheogen too!

    other places i visit:
    natmedtalk
    youtopia
    shroomery
    mycotopia
    entheogen-network

  14. #14
    Improving Psychonaut
    Join Date
    2012 Oct
    Posts
    81

    Re: meditation - a guide/introduction to Tao and Zen

    This was so useful, thanks so much. I actually found just reading it to be relaxing.

  15. #15
    Skilled Psychonaut Mrboxey's Avatar
    Join Date
    2012 Nov
    Posts
    168

    Re: meditation - a guide/introduction to Tao and Zen

    Yes, it is some really good information.

    I do find that the use of psychedelics or dissociatives while meditating can actually help in some cases, however, I can see that to actually read and comprehend the information first is the best route to take as well.

    Very good information, thanks for sharing

  16. #16
    Wishful Psychonaut
    Join Date
    2014 Mar
    Location
    NEW YORK
    Posts
    6

    Re: meditation - a guide/introduction to Tao and Zen

    This was wonderful.

  17. #17
    I and I Monad's Avatar
    Join Date
    2012 Sep
    Location
    Posts
    3,255

    Re: meditation - a guide/introduction to Tao and Zen

    Alan Watts was such a great man!

    From one of the video you posted:
    "Don't act but act
    And that of course would be the taoist principle of wu wei
    Of action in the spirit of not being separate from the world
    Realising so fully that you are the universe too
    That your action on it is not an interference
    But an expression of the totality"

    Love and light,
    "But how can the one liberate the many? By first liberating his own being. He does this not by elevating himself, but by lowering himself. He lowers himself to that which is simple, modest, true; integrating it into himself, he becomes a master of simplicity, modesty, truth. Completely emancipated from his former false life, he discovers his original pure nature, which is the pure nature of the universe. Freely and spontaneously releasing his divine energy, he constantly transcends complicated situations and draws everything around him back into an integral oneness. Because he is a living divinity, when he acts, the universe acts." Lao Tzu

    "Itĺs too early for a science. What we need now are the diaries of explorers. We need many diaries of many explorers so we can begin to get a feeling for the territory." T. McKenna

    "The man who dies before he dies, does not die when he dies." A. a Sancta Clara


    ATTENZIONE! Tutti i miei post sono scritti a puro titolo informativo e non vogliono incitare in alcun modo all'utilizzo di sostanze stupefacenti e/o psicotrope!

  18. #18
    Skilled Psychonaut Illegalsmile's Avatar
    Join Date
    2009 Apr
    Location
    aztlan
    Posts
    266

    Re: meditation - a guide/introduction to Tao and Zen

    <8!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •