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Thread: userguide: Mushroom + Syrian rue

  1. #1
    Pazusu's Avatar
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    userguide: Mushroom + Syrian rue

    Hi,
    next time I'd like to try musrooms (10 g fresh cubensis) and Syrian Rue (2.5 g).
    Are these the right doses? Or can I use a bit less Syrian Rue?
    When do I take the shroom and when the rue?
    What's important to think of when using a strong MAOI, like the Syrian Rue?
    How long does a trip take and how long do you need to stay on a poisonless diet before and after the trip?

    I read you need to begin a diet of healthy food 3 days before and 3 days after the trip. That means no poisonous meals containing the obvious poisons like alcohol, tabacco, etc. But also no liver, French cheese, yoghurt. Do you know a longer list of forbidden food when using Syrian Rue?

    I think I'll have my last meal about 6 hours before the start.
    Life - what is this beautiful instrument? Why does it suffer so much when played the wrong way? And how can it, when played right, do so much, even reach God? (From: Henderson the Rain King - Saul Bellow)

  2. #2
    Experienced Psychonaut HeartCore's Avatar
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    usually 24 hours before and after is sufficient for diet and special foods. However, it doesnt hurt to do more and it can help focus more on the experience since you are already consiously preparing days before.

    Dosage sounds about right, I did it one time with 4 grams rue and 25 grams of mushrooms which was a very impressive trip with a specific character.

    On erowid is a good list of what to avoid when taking a maoi.

    Keep in mind that rue can make you nauseous and for some people its impossible to eat/drink anything when the stuff actually starts to work.

    HC
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  3. #3
    Pazusu's Avatar
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    Thanks HC!

    I read about the Syrian Rue and psylocibin mushrooms on this website:
    http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16337

    The site says about the diet:
    Some Dangers and Precautions
    MAO-inhibitors can react adversely with some foods and medications. You should NEVER take an MAO-inhibitor with an SSRI (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitor) such as Prozac, or with any prescription or over-the-counter antihistamines, cold-medications or cough syrups. If you are regularly taking other over-the-counter or prescription medications, please consult your physician or your favorite pharmaceutical reference manual (such as the PDR) for any adverse MAOI interactions. Adverse reactions with prescription and over the counter medications can lead to a sharp rise in blood pressure and death.
    It is also recommended that you avoid foods containing the amino acid tyramine - such as cheeses, bananas, fish (espesclally bad or spoiling), soy and broad beans, chocolates, coffees, avocados, and alcohol - while caking an MAOI This dietary precaution is primarily fur people taking an MAOI on a daily basis.
    The rue should be taken 40 minutes before the shrooms to "double" the shroom effect.

    With the information from erowid added to it, I found the answers to my questions. So...where the heck am I going to find a coffee grinder to make powder of the Rue to put it into a capsule? Or can I smash it with a hammer or so?
    Life - what is this beautiful instrument? Why does it suffer so much when played the wrong way? And how can it, when played right, do so much, even reach God? (From: Henderson the Rain King - Saul Bellow)

  4. #4
    Experienced Psychonaut HeartCore's Avatar
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    You can buy very cheap grinders (14 euro) from kijkshop.nl . They work perfectly
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  5. #5
    Brewmaster's Avatar
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    Yeah, you can smash em with a hammer or just swallow whole and wait a little while longer. That's the way I do it, they don't taste bad (kind of like bitter coffee), it's just easier. They're already really small, so it's easy to just wash down a gram at a time.

    With that small of a dose (rue) you really don't need to worry too much about your diet. Like the quote you posted, all those dietary recommendations are for people taking an maoi on a daily basis. Taking any SSRI's is much, much more dangerous. Your list says cheeses, but you really only need to avoid AGED cheeses, and cheap beer isn't a problem either. It's high quality brewer's yeast that fucks with an maoi. But basically, if you really don't want to consume any tyramines, stay away from anything with protein, specifically meat and nuts.

    And like H.C. said, rue makes a lot of people queasy or sick, so I wouldn't recommend doing this if you're one of those folks who gets sick off mushrooms alone.

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  6. #6
    Pazusu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewmaster
    And like H.C. said, rue makes a lot of people queasy or sick, so I wouldn't recommend doing this if you're one of those folks who gets sick of mushrooms alone.
    Well let's find out!
    I don't eat the shrooms. I've made icecubes of the tea, and I'll defrost them.
    On erowid I read you should take the harmal 15 minutes prior to the shrooms, on another site I read 40 minutes. So I think I'll split the dose and start by taking half of the harmal and after 20 minutes the other half. Then after 40 minutes the shroomtea. I've got enough time (at last!).

    If I have to deal with the inconvenience of throwing up, so be it. A good memory always lasts longer than a bad one.
    Life - what is this beautiful instrument? Why does it suffer so much when played the wrong way? And how can it, when played right, do so much, even reach God? (From: Henderson the Rain King - Saul Bellow)

  7. #7
    Experienced Psychonaut HeartCore's Avatar
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    A good friend of me wanted to make huasca using rue and mimosa. I gave him the recipe from Azarius which states that 20 minutes after taking the rue, you take the mimosa. I advised him not to wait too long and explained him about my personal experience in this matter which is: when the rue starts to make you feel sick, you can forget about ingesting ANYTHING else untill it wears off.

    He didnt take it too seriously so off he went, back to Ukraine. They rented a nice cabin near the black see, anticipation was high. My friend started to make the rue tea for all six people involged. They drank it, and only then, my friend started to prepare the mimosa tea.

    He took his time, he gueses a little over 30 minutes, he started to feel sick but finished preparing the mimosa tea. He then proceeded to the other room where he found the other 5 people almost delirious from the rue. Everyone was extremely nauseous and vomiting. It took over 5 hours to come down from this. Some brave guy tried to drink the mimosa anyway, he failed, I could have told him in advance.

    Just to give you an idea. Personally when I use rue, I make sure my dose if suficient and then add a little more. But the 20 minute mark has become holy for me.

    Hope this helps
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  8. #8
    Pazusu's Avatar
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    OkÚ, bad luck again. The Syrian Rue was not delivered in time. Now I have some leaves of Passion Flower, but I read it's about 80 times weaker than Syrian Rue.
    I found an article about how to make Passion Flower extract as a MOAI for Cubensis mushrooms. Unfortunately it takes 2 days to make the extract.

    I'll make a bit of Passion Flower tea anyway (at least this doesn't do much harm to my stomach) and I decided to raise the mushroom dose.

    But making Passion Flower extract seems a pretty comfortable way of making a shroom-ayahuasca. I read about it on erowid: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=5423
    Life - what is this beautiful instrument? Why does it suffer so much when played the wrong way? And how can it, when played right, do so much, even reach God? (From: Henderson the Rain King - Saul Bellow)

  9. #9
    Experienced Psychonaut HeartCore's Avatar
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    Sounds like a winner Pas and I'm looking forward to your report
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  10. #10
    Experienced Psychonaut tryptonaut's Avatar
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    I once tried shrooms and Syrian Rue with 5g rue and 6g dried cubensis. It was too much. It was very spiritual and overwhelming and it seemed to last forever. I can't even say what exactly it was that hit me so hard, but it wasn't fun...

    I had cooked the rue seeds with water and lemon juice for about half an hour - they become very soft and you can easily drink the stuff. From my experience with 5g Rue seeds and mimosa hostilis this way to prepare rue seeds seems pretty effective.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by tryptonaut
    I once tried shrooms and Syrian Rue with 5g rue and 6g dried cubensis. It was too much. It was very spiritual and overwhelming and it seemed to last forever. I can't even say what exactly it was that hit me so hard, but it wasn't fun...
    Well, a few weeks ago I also tried something like that. I ground 5 grams of the seeds to powder with mortar and pestle and let that soak in orange-juice for 30 minutes, after which I drank only the juice, not the remainings. That way I don't taste the Rue and get no stomach discomforts.
    15 minutes later I ate 2,5 grams of dried Panaeolus Cyanescens. It was indeed spiritual and overwhelming. I think I can understand what your experience with this combination was like.
    But what do you expect with such high dosages?

    Well, I hope you have dealt with it the right way, tryptonaut. I hope I have.
    Syrian Rue with mushrooms can be a very powerful combination,Pazusu, if you want to try it, be careful not to take high doses, unless you think you're ready for it. and if you're not into it already, I would suggest to read alot about (plant)shamanism.

    For a nice dose with an average bodyweight, I recommend 2-3 grams Syrian Rue, or 20-30 grams of Passionflower with 2-3 grams of dried cubensis or 0,5-1 gram of dried Panaeolus Cyanescens (or other highly potent species).

    Good luck!

  12. #12
    Experienced Psychonaut HeartCore's Avatar
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    I would suggest to read alot about (plant)shamanism.
    Is there any other shamanism

    Wholehearty agree with you with the remark that plants are much better teachers than books but the latter give you a good headstart
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  13. #13
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    I've done rue about 3 or 4 times with mushrooms ranging from 3.5g-7g of mushrooms with a tablespoon of rue (sorry I dont know how much that is I havent had a scale for some time now)

    Anyways, I've always prepared it like a couple other ppl here, with the lemon juice and making tea.

    then half hour to an hour later I would make the mushroom tea, but I would also put a bit of rue in it as well.

    I've never experienced any nasuea, if anything I've experienced much cleaner trips than mushrooms by themselves and never had any trouble eating or drinking anything on the trip. Although I only drink on the trip.

    good luck and have fun! better have some weed for when you get tired cuz sometimes the trips can go on and on, my trouble is getting way too overtired and then not having fun tripping cuz i'm so exhausted!

    but have fun!
    "There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there it is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me. When I return from the trip that I have taken with them, I tell what they have told me and what they have shown me."

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  14. #14
    Experienced Psychonaut Goran.Hrsak's Avatar
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    I have mix MAOi with SSRI and SSNRI(nora-epinephrine), then MAOi with amphetamines and MDMA and analogues. Except hiperthermia and histamine rush(maybe it was high blood pressure?) I haven't no deathly symptoms.
    But this was me, and my depression witch lower life respectability-testing the limitations of infinity! Do not do that! I just want to say that death is not always final result of this kind of drugs mixing.

    And bout posting before shrooms with Pegan is not necessary. Post that day and day after, cause pegan doesn't have MAOi properties like medicines. Harmin and Harmalin have fast half-life and quickly get out of body.

    But rather take 3-4 shrooms more instead less with MAOi
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