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Thread: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

  1. #1
    mindatlarge
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    Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    Hello. I just signed up for an account and this is my first post. I am very interested in the idea of bridging the gap between science and spirit to explain consciousness. I try to read as much as I can about these topics. I recently read J.D. Arthurs "Salvia Divinorum". I think that the study of psychedelics and altered states of consciousness is very important and certainly adventurous and fun yet also stirs up some degree of anxiety before use.

    So far I have smoked Salvia 4 times - small amount of 10x each time. I have not yet achieved a full break through or out of body experience where I fully lose my ego and physical identity in this world. Every time I have done it I have closed my eyes and kicked back. Here are quotes from the notes that I take immediately while coming down:

    1st session "I felt like part of a giant set of walking legs moving at a steady pace. Was afraid to fully let go... was not high enough to fully drift away and didn't quite feel ready but if I'd smoked a bit more I don't think I'd have had a choice!"

    2nd session "Felt as though I could just stand right up out of my body. Made me laugh in a gleeful way. Felt as though I was entering a new plane of reality but was not high enough to fully realize where I was going."

    3rd session "Felt very cleansing. Healing. Felt like shedding skin. My body felt like dust that was being blown away in the wind. Illusion. Hologram. Launching up like a spring and then falling back down like on a parachute. My body feels as though it blends in with all of my surroundings and all of physical reality feels like shedding skin that could so quickly just vanish. I feel like I head towards becoming some type of omnipresent pure awareness that is outside of material reality."

    4th session "Much lake the 3rd session. Felt as though I was headed into a very blank and empty plane of existence that coexists with this one but that we are typically unaware of. Had all of the same cleansing feels of shedding physical reality. I have not yet sensed any presences or life other than myself. Still feel apprehensive about fully letting go. Could not get my mind to shut up and just be silent and observe. Feel a bit like a child who has so much to learn. I could sort of see and feel a window or door that slowly closed itself as I came back down."

    So. This is where I am at in my Salvia adventures. I have smoked alone each time. I feel that having someone present may be a distraction yet at the same time I feel that if I try a higher dose to try to get a total out of body experience perhaps I should have someone hang with me.

    I would love to get any type of feedback or advice about my adventures here from any other salvia users. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Moderator ophiuchus's Avatar
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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    i'd double the next dose if i were you. it will make little difference whether or not someone is there with you, in terms of comfort, and at a high enough dose, there is no issue over whether or not to let go, letting go is simply all that can be done/ is done. really having someone present or not is a simple matter of what you think will make you most comfortable. though know if you do go it alone, i would recommend at least having someone there to talk with afterwards, even if on the phone. as one makes their return journey back to their senses/body, some intense feelings may arise that one may feel compelled to share, and having someone to share it with can sometimes be crucial in the intergration of it to your sober reality. hope that helps, good luck.
    cannabis is an entheogen too!

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  3. #3
    mindatlarge
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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    Thank you for the reply.

    I guess what gives me the most apprehension and concern is feeling as though once I leave my body, or my consciousness goes elsewhere, I won't be able to get back! haha Has anyone had similar anxiety about returning to their body after smoking Salvia?

    Anybody noticed any differences in their trip based upon whether they smoked on a full or empty stomach?

  4. #4
    Moderator ophiuchus's Avatar
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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    i know what you mean. i never really had the apprehension of never returning to normal before undertaking the experience however. but when i was coming to my senses again, during the transition itself, i had a fleeting moment of confusion where i was only partially conscious of reality involving a "me" (awake and upright in a chair the entire time mind you) and so there was this extraordinarily intense feeling of emotion that could be equated to an OH MY GOD WHAT HAS HAPPENED/HAVE I DONE, in a me just being reborn, trying to figure out the scenario happening around it, which seems scary to think about at first, but within a minutes time thought gains clarity again and emotions accelerate faster and faster back to baseline. i will say the transition is rather abrupt, but that is the nature of smoked salvia. holding the bong in ones hand is like waiting at the top of a mental rollercoaster, then before you know what hit you you're back, and you're left with a feeling of awe.

    i personally have been looking into the "quid" method for some time now. i probably won't smoke salvia again if the quid proves more favorable for me, as i'd like more than a brief moment to fully experience the trip, take it in and savor it, whereas with smoking, it's more of a "wham bam thank you ma'am" if you know what i mean.

    (if you're unfamiliar with the "quid method" it's worth looking into. essentially the salvia is held in the mouth, the only other place that salvinorin can be absorbed by the body. the trip is more gradual, and lasts longer, also the intensity can be somewhat controlled by simply spitting out the wad of leaves or teabag.)
    cannabis is an entheogen too!

    other places i visit:
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    youtopia
    shroomery
    mycotopia
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  5. #5
    Meuble Sludge's Avatar
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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    I'd like to hear about the quid method after you tried it. I imagine it's not as strong as smoked, but I may be wrong.
    Mes trips reports : The Death of Utopia, The Begining of the Dream
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    Le lâcher prise, c'est accepter de redevenir un enfant.
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    Ce qui importe avec l’expérience psychédélique, ou plus généralement spirituelle, ce n’est pas la vérité que l’on croit toucher du doigt, mais bien le chemin qu’elle nous fait parcourir sur notre rapport au soi, aux autres et à la vie.

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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    foremost -you seem to have a good attitude/intentionality-very important--i feel- foremost -one approach,s Salvia-with a healthy and earnest respect- formulate -however breif -a sincere desire for her assistance/oversight and i would suggest -starting again with the -Emerald essence-tincture from -Danial siebert,s site- It is such quality and is not "expensive" when consistency in quality and longevity is taken in account_this just obviates having to deal with 'quids" also- there is /are so many viewpoints/expressions that attest to the feeling(s) that "she" prefer's oral (as traditionally practiced for centuries) assimulation-not being burn,t. just incrementaly work up with the tincture and be as unassuming as you can-after a number of "journeys" the "letting go" will happen without the fierce-anguished grasping on our conceptual framework that so often brings on the -fear-Again -i feel- having an attitude of -humility (as genuine as you can muster) wii help--also an authentic communication with this very female presence can assuage many feelings of fearfulness. thank you.

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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    have you tried the quid ophiuchus?? what was it like compared to smoking?

  8. #8
    snarehanger
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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    I've had an out of body experience nearly every time I've used it - the first time I floated above my own body, the second time was even more interesting - everything blackened and I could see a grid filled with the viewpoints of other people all at the same time.

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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    the Mazateca natives never smoke salvia, they say the spirit becomes angry when burned so they will only ever quid/eat the leaves. I'll leave metaphysics up to the listener but either way theyve gotta know a thing or two about how to get off the ground because they r the only civilization to use it in all of history.

  10. #10
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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    Hey guys, I have some information that will be of great interest to you, especially if your trying to understand Salvia and the worlds/dimensions it takes you to:


    I have only used Salvia a handful of times ( DMT was something I was a little more focused on ) and only a 5x extract. I would always get a strange puzzle/circus vibe with odd sensations pulling my body forward and also a sense of time rewinding. My friend who imbibed the extract seemed to have gone further laughing hysterically saying he was on a roller coaster in a forest.


    So my experience with this substance is rather limited however I have read many many trip reports and I find the whole thing fascinating to say the least. I feel this substance is somehow pulling back a portion of the curtain to show you the backstage props of reality.
    Now although my personal experience with this substance is very limited I have come across a fascinating book that seems to talk about many of the things salvianauts encounter in there journeys.

    This book is called Zhuan Falun and it is from the Buddha Law School of Cultivation however it is not Buddhism the religion or Daoism the religion, it's something more profound.
    It seems to me to be more of a spiritual science as many of the terms and concepts in the book are talked about in a scientific down to earth manner instead of flowery mystical prose which I found very refreshing.


    Now here is where it gets interesting, this book talks about the following things:


    Other Dimensions
    - Levels Of Dimensions spanning into the microcosm and also outwards into the macrocosm


    The Soul
    - It talks about people having a Master soul and a subordinate soul which is hidden from you but is at a more advanced level then you, it states some people have more then one Subordinate soul and some are of not of the same sex as you i.e males having a female subordinate soul etc.


    Microcosmic worlds
    - This concept was very far out but it talks about there being worlds within you, countless worlds. Similiar to our world with life , water, animals etc. An analogy is zooming an an atom within one of your cells and realizing at that level of magnification it is just like our solar system. Then zooming into a single particle in that world and finding out it too is a vast world, apparently the level it can go onwards like this is beyond imagination.


    Supernatural abilities
    - In the book they mention that everyone has them it is just that they have atrophied. It goes into depth about this topic. Some abilites that are mentioned are precognition, retrocognition and remote vision.


    The 3rd Eye
    - Talks about how at the front part of our pineal gland there is a complete structure of an eye there. Modern science calls it a vestigial eye but in the cultivation world they say this eye just naturally exists like that and it can be activated allowing one to pierce through this dimension and see other dimensions. It talks about how there are many levels to this 3rd eye and it goes into great depth about it.


    Thoughts
    - This part was amazing. It talks about how a human brain is just a processing plant. How the real you is actually your soul, it's like your whole body and brain is just a vehicle and that the true commands are issued by your master soul, but this master soul is very tiny and it can switch positions while inside you and it can also expand and shrink. It can move from your brain to your heart and to other parts of your body and it is 'he' who calls the shots. Your brain is just the factory which your master soul sends his cosmic commands to which then create the forms of expression and communication we use such as speech, gestures, etc.




    These are just a few things that are covered but there are many many other things which blew my mind when I read it because of how it resonated with some of the saliva experiences I have read, especially the multidimensional nature of reality and how all of them are hidden in our day to day perceptions of the world.

    If this sounds interesting to anyone you can grab a copy of the book here:

    http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/pdf/zfl_new.pdf


    http://www.falundafa.org
    ( this is site to the actual practice where you can download the cultivation exercises etc )



    Also some people talk about how our reality is really like a '3D painting'. Sort of like it is 3d in our day to day perceptions but from a higher dimension it's almost like we are on a sheet/brane or whatever you wanna call it.
    This is fascinating because Buddha GrandMaster Li Hongzhi ( the person who wrote Zhuan Falun ) talked about this very same thing in one of his lectures. Check it out and let me know if this stirs anyone's connection with Salvia space:


    "What kind of dimensional form does our human race live in? I am telling everyone that this dimensional layer where mankind lives is between two kinds of particles. As for particles, those of us who have studied physics know that molecules, atoms, nuclei, quarks, and neutrinos are each a layer of particles. They are physical elements that constitute larger particles.

    Which layer of particles does mankind exist in? The largest things that we see with human eyes are planets, and the smallest things that we can see under the microscope are molecules.
    In fact, our mankind just exists in this dimensional layer between the planets and the molecules. We may find it very vast, very extensive, and incomparably big. I say that modern science is not advanced. No matter how far a spacecraft can fly, it cannot fly beyond this physical dimension of ours. However developed a computer is, it cannot match the human brain.

    Now the human brain is still a mystery. Therefore, the science of mankind is still very shallow.Try to imagine it, everyone. Our human race lives in between these two kinds of particles of planets and molecules.
    Molecules are made up of atoms, then what is the dimension between atoms and molecules like? Modern scientists can only understand an atom as a point, one of its small structures.

    In fact, the place where atoms exist is also a plane, and the physical dimension formed by such a plane is also quite huge. It is only that what you have discovered is a point. Within this plane then, how big is this dimension?
    Our standard for measuring distances is always based upon the perspective of mankind’s own modern science to judge everything. You must jump out of the framework and the concepts of empirical science. In order for you to enter that dimension, you must comply with the forms of that dimension, and only then can you enter it.

    The distance from an atom to a molecule, as science understands it, is approximately two million atoms lined up, and only then can an atom reach a molecule. That is to say that this distance that it can understand is already quite vast. You cannot understand it from the standpoint of this present empirical scientific model of mankind. Then, please try to think about it for a moment.


    Isn’t it a dimensional layer in between from an atom to its nuclei? How great then is the dimensional distance between the nuclei and a quark? What about between a quark and a neutrino? Of course, the current science of mankind can only understand as far as neutrinos.


    Man cannot see them except for detecting them with apparatus to know their mode of existence. In fact, it is not known how far away they are from the original source of matter! What I am talking about is the simplest form of dimensional existence.
    All physical substances of our mankind, including all substances that you cannot see in the air as well as those substances that we can see such as iron, cement, animals, plants, matter, and the human body, are composed of molecules.

    Mankind just exists on this plane of molecules, just like a 3-D painting. You live on this plane and you cannot escape it. Mankind’s science is also limited within this one dimension which it cannot even break through. Yet, people still claim how developed science is and disregard all other theories.
    Mankind’s technology cannot reach a higher understanding of the universe. If it were really able to break through this dimensional layer, it would see the mode of existence of life and the mode of existence of matter in other dimensions, as well as the structures in them made by time and space.

    However, our practitioners can see it. Only Buddhas are the greatest scientists.When I talked about opening Tianmu (the third eye), I mentioned this issue. One can avoid using eyes to see things and look through this Tianmu of ours, namely between the two eyebrows, or from the Shangen as the Taoist School calls it. At the root of your nose, a passageway is opened directly to your Pineal Body.

    It is called the Pineal Body in medical science. Practitioners in the Taoist School call it the Niwan Palace, which refers to the same thing. However, in the front part of this Pineal Body, medical scientists have already found it equipped with all the component structures of a human eye. Modern medical scientists find it very strange. Why is there an eye inside? They consider it a vestigial eye, and they still explain these things with the theory of evolution.

    In fact, it just exists this way, and it is not at all degenerated. When one avoids the flesh eyes, of course, when these flesh eyes have been cultivated, the flesh eyes can also penetrate and also have this kind of supernormal capability.
    The Buddha Fa is boundless. Generally, when one avoids the eyes, avoids the eyes that are made up of molecules to look, one will be able to penetrate this dimension and see scenes in other dimensions. It is just such a principle. Therefore, practitioners can see things that ordinary people cannot see.

    Of course, some ordinary people occasionally have vaguely seen some unexplainable phenomena in their lifetimes. For instance, they may have seen a person pass before their eyes and disappear instantly, or they may have seen something or heard some sounds. That is probably the situation whereby they have actually vaguely seen or heard something in another dimension.


    Because one’s Tianmu is not sealed too tightly or his ears are not sealed too tightly, every once in a while he is able to hear the sounds of other dimensions or see some phenomena of other dimensions.I’ve just spoken of this dimension in which mankind lives. Actually, this planet that our human race inhabits is neither the largest particle nor the largest substance.


    Beyond the planets there are still larger substances! Therefore, Buddha Sakyamuni’s eyes could already see quite microscopic matter in the extremely microscopic microcosm and could see quite enormous, macro matter in the macrocosm. However, at the end Buddha Sakyamuni could not see how big this universe ultimately is.

    Therefore, he made a statement, "It is big enough without exterior, and it is small enough without interior." How huge this universe is! Please think about how complex it is. It is unlike what mankind knows.

    Even for this dimension of ours, this form, it is quite complex! Besides this dimensional form, there is also a dimensional form that exists vertically, and within this vertical dimension there are also many unitary paradises.
    It is very complex. The unitary worlds that I am talking about refer to paradises, etc. Each dimension has different time-spaces. Do you think that the time in the dimension composed of atoms, can be the same as that in our dimension over here, which is made up of molecules?

    It's concept of space and its distance is also different from ours, and everything becomes different. Why do the extraterrestrial UFOs come and go from nowhere and fly so fast? They are traveling in other dimensions; it is just so simple.
    If man tries to understand the unexplained phenomena in the universe from his own current scientific perspective or uses this method to study cultivation practice or religions, he will never get it in his research. He has to change his way of thinking, and he must understand it from another perspective.

    In the history of man, science is not only today’s so-called empirical science that was discovered or invented by the Europeans. This is not the only path; there are other paths as well.
    For those ancient civilizations that have been discovered on earth and once existed in history, their courses of development all took different paths in understanding life, matter, and the universe. The ancient science of China also took another path. The Chinese culture, although the levels it involved were very high, yet because the people’s morality was no longer good, it had also been suppressed. Therefore, it was not passed down, and this lowest form of science from the West was left to man instead. Thus, it is rather inadequate."
    Last edited by mnemosyne; 15th June 2015 at 18:46. Reason: Needed to fix paragraphs

  11. #11
    Wishful Psychonaut sellahremy's Avatar
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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    Sounds like you had some pretty vivid Trips
    Check out my blog for Psychonauts jtwiz.com


  12. #12
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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    What you talk about is Buddhism, herein one of its schools, a logical demonstration of the mathematical nature of language whereby the author cleverly manipulates fact and belief so that the two become bound and no longer distinguishable. And he does it with notable use of logical algorithms whose coherence is iron proof.
    That being said I can go over the entire excerpt with a counter argument for every statement as I have recalled them while reading through your amusing post. Science my friend and not theology or any esoterism lies at the heart of any experience in life and even more so when applied to psychedelics. Seek your answers in the infinite expanses of today's cosmology, particle physics, quantum mechanics, string theories and for not much longer Einstein's general relativity which is set to give way for a new paradigm in the imminent future.

    You see my friend psychedelics "let mind become manifest", thoughts become real, one can start to believe any possible explanation for the impenetrable surface of the experience. Well I am telling you that a new science might just birth from both the observations of clinical psychopathology and inner workings of neurochemistry a science which will use the human brain to reach out into the interloping dimensions of physical reality (which is composed by the way of 13 spatial dimensions as stipulated by the M theory the most likely replacement candidate for general and special relativity) and we will get to those dimensions by designing self aware nanotechnology psychotropics with a desired receptor affinity profile and this is where I am speculating completely but from the standpoint of science which is not so dull after all if one has imagination and has been on a rigorous diet of physical fact with multiple source verifications necessary for every memory database backlog entry. When you have been feeding yourself only confirmed physical reality you start with right data to reach right conclusions. Most people are capable of analysis. They just go from wrong data and end up in weird places like that Buddhist science critic. Opening your third eye? Gimme a break. That is simple language for "using insightful scientific theories to explain erratic brain behaviour". Every single supernatural phenomenon becomes a non event when exposed to psychedelic mindspaces. And these mind spaces have an awful tendency to convince people of their own righteousness in deciding what is real and what is not. The only way to escape the fate of lunacy is by following strict scientific method of hypothesis to theory by confrontation with reality. You gotta do this yourself fella and many times a day as well, otherwise might end up in a psychic ward conversing about auras, chakras and master souls, hell even machine elves of Terence McKenna's lunacy. I refuse to read anything about DMT. This substance is key to our understanding of reality and true meanings of life and death. I am waiting to see what my subconscious will give as a computation. You are surely aware that a human brain is just like a PC with one key differenceCs excel at serial processing brains excel at parallel processing.
    Here I was distracted for good two hours and don't have the time now to finish writing so posting as is.
    Last edited by TipOfTheNeedle; 15th August 2015 at 14:06.

  13. #13
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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    The first time I smoked salvia I was at a party, and one of my buddies had brought some over. I had no idea what it was other than a supposedly legal hallucinogenic. Anyhow, a bunch of us sat in a circle and took turns hitting some 10x salvia. I was maybe 4th in line, and one of my buddies hit it and made a big show about things crawling all over his body. I thought he was playing it up. So it got to me and I took what I thought was a decent hit. It basically made me feel a little stoned, and I began sweating like crazy - but after all the build up it was a pretty big let down. Later on in the night my buddy that brought the salvia over pulled a few of us aside and pulls out this 20x salvia with this huge shit eating grin on his face. So we find an empty room and go for round 2. Again I was maybe 3rd or 4th in line, and no one had anything major happen. I was sitting on a futon and hit the pipe with determination. I set the pipe down on the coffee table and sat back into the futon...and literally melted right into it. I just kept falling back, through the futon, into infinity. I felt like I was spiraling backwards into nothing...and everything. I freaked the fuck out. I had this sense that I was a part of this all encompassing telepathic organism. Literally just some shitty good for nothing cell. It laughed at me for thinking I was a human with an identity and a life. The other cells around me laughed as well. Things got caught in an infinite loop of me denying my existence as a cell, and everything else laughing at me. After what felt like an eternity I started to feel like I was falling into darkness...I could see myself falling down into the room I was sitting on the futon in. It looked like a diorama or something. Like, no roof, just a play setting or something. But I could see me sitting there on the futon, and I was sooooooo relieved. I started swimming back to my body in desperation. I landed in my body and tried to sit up...but it felt like I was velcrod to the futon and I literally had to pry myself away like I was partially fused to it. When I finally did I hopped up and pretty much just started yelling and causing a big scene. Freaked everyone out.

  14. #14
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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    Salvia is such a strange and mysterious plant and experience. To explore the salvia realm i think it is wise to start with a small dose or to start with smoking the leaves. To get familiar with the feeling first, before taking a big break through dose. Intention is important with all psychedelics. Because salvia can be a very challanging experience having a clear intention is needed. So my advice is to get your intention straight for yourself. Ask yourself why? What,s the reason to do salvia? Intention is the best tool for navigating the psychedelic world.

    With salvia it feels/seems like there are two worlds and you have two body,s. At a low dose it can seem like you are stuck between these two (body,s worlds) . At a break through dose your normal body and the normal world are gone. I ussualy get the feeling that there are beings or entities with me in the salvia realm. These beings sometimes speak to me. Sometimes these beings show themselves to me. They seem very human like. If you ask me what i think these beings are: i think they are part of myself.

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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    Quote Originally Posted by lobsterapples View Post
    the Mazateca natives never smoke salvia, they say the spirit becomes angry when burned so they will only ever quid/eat the leaves. I'll leave metaphysics up to the listener but either way theyve gotta know a thing or two about how to get off the ground because they r the only civilization to use it in all of history.

    Somehow, I do believe in this theory too... I'm waiting for my first salvia plant to be delivered and look forward to chew fresh leaves soon: didn't really enjoy the strong smoking approach to it. I'd prefer a long lasting inward trip, discovering the inner mysteries of the old plant

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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    Just want to report my short salvia experimenting for those who are interested. And maybe some of you will have any advice/insight for me.

    Ive got 20x extract.
    Lying on a bed.
    Today ive done my 3rd time but im working the way up so i started at dose around 10 mg just to unsure myself what im holding in my hands.
    -- Second time ive done 30mg and it made feel heavy and some little memory gaps + pulling sensation in my leg.
    -- 3rd time ive done 60mg and experience was pretty same like before but just more intense. Ive got the same pulling feeling but now ive somehow felt/heard and almmost saw some people/entities(3 of them i think) which were talking to each other and i have a strange feeling that its my familly(my familly was in the same house but definitely not with me in the room ) and that they are responsible for this pulling. They were talking between themselves like: oh, ok , now this way take him from that side. Like they were trying to take me out of my body but unsuccesfully...
    (i know this pulling sensation is very common among salvia users but i would like to be really pulled out and not just to be pulling doll )

    During this very short experience (like around 2 minutes by my memorable perception of time) ive realized that ive done maybe too little and somehow managed to get myself to other side of the room where ive packed more salvia into pipe and smoked that but it hasn´t done any additional effect. So ive just enjoyed euphoria(or at least tried to) that lefts.

    Every time i smoked it from simple wooden pipe and smoked all of it by one toke and holded it for like 20 maybe 30 seconds and right before i exhale ive immidiately felt the effects which is weird cause people saying that it comes like after 60-90 seconds.

    Summary is that ive had almost no visual hallucinations and only 2-3 minutes weird pulling experience after which ive been able to act normally. So i know i would need bigger dose for breakthrough cause maybe my 20x extract is bit weaker. So next time im going 100mg.

    Hope my written english make sense
    Last edited by benjjack; 13th November 2016 at 15:52.

  17. #17
    Wut? Lotre's Avatar
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    Re : Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    Hmm man you posted your text in white on white background. But why not, afterall.
    Tout est vrai.
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    Re: Achieving break through/out of body with Salvia

    Yees i just wanted to more symbolize my experience noo sorry , it´s alright now.

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