Quoi de neuf ?

Bienvenue sur Psychonaut.fr !

En vous enregistrant, vous pourrez discuter de psychotropes, écrire vos meilleurs trip-reports et mieux connaitre la communauté

Je m'inscris!

Theres nothing positive about turning blind eye to disaste

tammuz

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
21 Oct 2011
Messages
28
after reading and lurking these forums, I thought it appropriate to post this, it seems relevant.

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/11/the ... rning.html



"If you aren’t satisfied with the status quo, and you discuss these feelings with people on a regular basis, then surely at one time or another you been told things like “stop being so negative,” or “can’t you just focus on the more positive things in life?”

We can all probably think back on way too many of those frustrating moments where our peers have expected us to share in their blissful evasion of reality. Unfortunately, the longer that we ignore the problems that face our species and leave them for someone else to deal with, the worse our predicament becomes. At first glimpse these issues may seem overwhelming and insurmountable; but simply knowing that they exist is the first step towards freeing your mind and creating a better world for all of us to live in.

If you had a debilitating illness that could be cured, wouldn’t you want to get a diagnosis and immediately start doing what was needed in order to begin healing yourself? Or would you rather do nothing and ignore the disease because it was “negative”? Sadly we have been led to believe that ignorance is bliss, while it is actually the reason for the majority of the suffering that has taken place throughout history.

If we are not fully aware of what is going on then there is no way that we can possibly improve the quality of life on this Earth. Everyone wants to be positive, and it is definitely understandable for someone to put off things that may be difficult, sad or painful. However, this is no excuse to ignore legitimate problems that need to be fixed, and it is certainly no reason to allow crimes to be committed before our very eyes.


Every generation that has come before us has been absolutely petrified of standing up to challenge the status quo. For centuries the buck has been passed down the line, and our species has continued to ride this roller coaster of confusion and oppression. In so many ways we have come so far and learned so much. Our civilization once openly accepted slavery, racism, war and authoritarianism as simple facts of life; now we are finally beginning to shed some of these neuroses and have started to consider the fact that maybe there is a better way.

While this all sounds very good, we still have a very long way to go because we are really only beginning to discover these concepts -- we are far from understanding them and even farther from putting them into practice.

One of the main things preventing us from actually achieving peace and freedom is the simple fact that so many people who realize that the status quo is insane are too afraid to speak out because they are worried about what their parents, friends, or even what total strangers will think of them.

Deep down most people aren’t pleased with the state of our civilization, but since it is socially unacceptable to question it, everyone goes on thinking that they are alone, weak and powerless. Most self-respecting people can’t go on feeling like that, so they rationalize what’s going on around them, telling themselves it is the only world that’s possible, and then proceed to ridicule anyone who challenges their unconsciously created facade. This is why many people go on putting up with circumstances that they find to be intolerable: they are afraid of being alienated from their peers.

Don’t be discouraged by people who can’t handle reality. Remember that most of them are just afraid and aren’t ready to come to terms with the truth yet. Just like a battered child who cries when being taken away from the "safety" of their abusive parents, we also feel comfort in unacceptable situations simply because we are familiar with them. Much like the child, we need to break free from the familiar confines of our abuse and oppression.

Interestingly enough, this situation is so common that the condition is actually classified medically as "Stockholm syndrome." Stockholm syndrome is typically used to describe hostages who develop positive feelings for their kidnapper because they are dependent upon them for sustenance. When we apply this concept to the macrocosm of our civilization we find that people living under a system of authoritarianism exhibit these exact same characteristics. Of course this idea is one of many that can be traced all the way back to ancient times. Written in ancient Greece, the allegory of the cave from Plato’s Republic depicted this exact social phenomena.

There is nothing positive about running away from freedom and putting off peace. The most positive thing that anyone can do is to learn as much as they can about how to fix the most negative things that are going on the world. Anyone that tells you otherwise is actively working to keep the world in the dismal state that it is in, whether they realize it or not. Sheltering ourselves from the harshness of our reality will only foster a more toxic and oppressive world for our children to grow up in.
 

IJesusChrist

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Juil 2008
Messages
7 482
post-43800.html?f=39

In defense of staying positive...

You don't have to ignore the state of the world to stay positive.
 

IJesusChrist

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Juil 2008
Messages
7 482
tammuz a dit:
yeah, you do not get it at all

wow.

well done.

So, lets try to have a discussion, here. You presented your way, I presented my way. You dismiss my way.

Here is what I have seen from amplifying and focusing on negativity:
"Bitterness propagates bitterness"

That is to say, as you condemn and place great stigma on an idea, ideology, paradigm, or group of people what happens is you amplify fear, hate, and bias. You no longer approach a subject in its true context, but rather focus on the negativity, the bad, the evil. You become overwhelmed with not only distrust and anger, but promote it's education by inducing fear.

I thought long and hard about this, especially in the environmental terrorism scheme of things. I fucking hate oil companies, gas companies, and logging companies. In washington the group ELF felt the same way. They were so sick and tired of the destructive nature of the companies instead of peaceful protest they went and started destroying the logging roads and the logging equipment. They destroyed a horse-meat packing plant as well (Go see the movie "If a tree falls"). They were one of the more radical groups, and they accomplished some good things.

However, they ended up losing in the end. The companies continued to start up, they were arrested, tased, maced, and beaten by the police brutality of the system.

This is disgusting, is it not? It makes you pissed. It makes you angry. IT makes me pissed, it makes me angry. I'd like to do exactly what they are doing, but what are they doing in the end?

They do not change the way these people think. These big companies, once labelled as "evil" and "bad" by ELF do not stop and think about what they have done, and come to some paradigm shift or dramatic realization about who or what they are. No, rather, they succumb to either fear of ELF or anger. Elf has propagated the problem. In fact, I might go as so far to say that negativity, taken in the form of physical action, takes away the credibility and probability of positive change. It steers the subject matter away from what is right in the environment to what is wrong for protesters to do.

Whether or not you are advocating physical action based on negativity, fear, and hate of the system you are going to eventually widen the gap of knowledge, empathy and understanding. Without directly speaking, learning, teaching the opposing ideologies, you are just going to push them farther and farther away from you and your possibility for your idealistic nation and system or lack there of.

Understanding what is wrong with the system, what is wrong with the paradigms, what is wrong with the ideologies largely at play within this complex system we live in alone is better than hating it. By understanding fully, you can teach. And to cross the boundaries of the mental "fence" and political/environmental/sustainable polarity of our people, especially in the US, you are going to have to incorporate both views in what you expel from your mouth. In other words to have the greatest effect on educating your friends, your enemies, your neighbors and community, you must stay as unbiased as possible throughout your explanations, through out your understandings, and throughout your spread of knowledge.

Condemning and hating will only exacerbate your dilemmas and problems. Providing evidence for change, a positive outlook on the future, and rationalizing both sides of any argument in full understanding will change.

We must teach, empathize, understand. We must not fear, fight, and condemn.
 

tammuz

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
21 Oct 2011
Messages
28
There is no point in trying to explain what I posted up there to you, you have demonstrated a willful ignorance to reality that you will just have to .....wallow in, man.

I have not seen many that can do it to the degree you can.
 

IJesusChrist

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Juil 2008
Messages
7 482
tammuz a dit:
There is no point in trying to explain what I posted up there to you, you have demonstrated a willful ignorance to reality that you will just have to .....wallow in, man.

I have not seen many that can do it to the degree you can.

If you can't change my mind, how are you going to change anyone's mind? You smell spicey.

To be honest, what you are saying in a nutshell is:
Tell everyone you don't like the system, point out its flaws, explain your dislikes of the system.
[Focus on negative]
What I'm saying:
Tell everyone you don't like the system, point out the flaws, explain what changes you like to see happen.
[Focus on positive]

But I "don't get it at all." You really are focusing on the negative. See the problem here?
 

Crimzen

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
16 Oct 2008
Messages
2 174
yeah, you do not get it at all

Thats a great response man,
maybe try making a point as to where you think IJC went wrong or something?

Theres nothing positive about turning a blind eye to disaster but theres also nothing positive about being a dick or simply pushing someones thoughts/opinions to the side
 

tammuz

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
21 Oct 2011
Messages
28
here's the thing;

a) crimzen why don't you ask IJC what his original responses were?
b) then ask him how he manipulated the context of this dialog?



he knows what I am talking about

you guys are quite a group.


(No, I'm not that person, but what he says is generally spot on, including the parts about you being clueless)
 

ararat

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
8 Juin 2006
Messages
3 374
you act more childish than I thought you to be. may I remind you that I can see which IP you are posting from? and even without it it would be crystal clear who you are.

if you are so dedicated to transform the world through your lens of rage and negativity than go ahead and do something! why do you even bother with us? don't waste your energy on us. why would you sit on your ass and get hung up on strangers on the internet?

and "yeah, you do not get it at all" doesn't really qualify as a dialogue. that we act as a group may have something to do with the fact that we disagree with your way.

regardless of what IJC writes, maybe you should turn your eye on yourself for once. WAKE THE FUCK UP
 

IJesusChrist

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Juil 2008
Messages
7 482
Spice you responded so fast I wasn't able to edit it - seriously within a few seconds of
"wow, well done" - the rest was added.

You didn't read it though, I'm assuming .

I then added to the next post "To be honest, what you are saying...."

Both I attempted to add before anyone read it.

If that clears up anything. I didn't delete any of my message, only added. Don't play those games.

It would be incredible if someone were to be as bitter as you. It is pretty weird how you are so alone in your discussions and alienation of other people that you have made up another name just so you could try to get some agreement :rolleyes: :lol:
 

Crimzen

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
16 Oct 2008
Messages
2 174
i generally tend to agree with spice on alot of the points he/you brings up, he makes good points alot of the time but is just really stubborn
 

IJesusChrist

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Juil 2008
Messages
7 482
Crimzen a dit:
i generally tend to agree with spice on alot of the points he/you brings up, he makes good points alot of the time but is just really stubborn

It doesn't seem to matter if you agree with him, he'll disagree with you. Or at least if I say anything, it is immediate disagreement.
 

ararat

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
8 Juin 2006
Messages
3 374
I feel bad posting posts such as my last one, but maybe it'll have a good effect to put up a mirror to him. I do agree with lots of things, but as crimzen said, he can be utterly stubborn.
 

weer_bastiaan

Matrice périnatale
Inscrit
17 Mar 2012
Messages
8
Tammuz=spice?
Am I missing sth here?
On topic, ' being negative' to one is being pessimistic as to ones own capabilities.
To another it's being realistic.
 

BrainEater

Banni
Inscrit
21 Juil 2007
Messages
5 922
oh wow great... another episode of ego-mind-projections and the futility of it all etc etc *yawn* i guess you know all that...

well actually i have seen similar trends on many levels... but i ask myself: why go against the own people??


DON'T YOU REALIZE THAT'S HOW THEY FUCK US UP, THE POPULATION????

we have to stop shit like that and work together. and i can tell you one thing that in most cases probably won't help
and that is attempting to enforce your perspective on others. which could also mean that you say the perspective of
the other person is not good enough or whatnot and then say you must have my perspective.
even if you don't say it directly....
please be careful with shit like that.... please think a little bit more/deeper because there can be points when this shit is
not funny anymore. it fucks us up basically. it's like negativity that could be avoided, but it also tells something
about how frustrated and despaired people are, even if they don't say it out loud. well this of course doesn't mean
that we can't learn something from it or so... negative things can have positive sides like that, too...

btw i think the article sums up pretty well what's really going on in the world and how some trends in many societies
seem to evolve or so. it means what is lacking is consciousness. and how it was said in another thread, i also think
that it's a lot better to admit mistakes that may have been done instead of trying to ignore them. as i see it this only leads
to people and everything else becoming more and more fake.

besides it seems to be very common... the hidden addiction for ego-drama. if you ask me it's a tv brainwashing thing...


peace
 

lJesusSpice

Matrice périnatale
Inscrit
18 Mar 2012
Messages
6
Spice, I know you, and I agree with much of what you have to say, but if you want to post anonymously here you'll have to look into proxy servers. Do you know who I am BananaWaffle?
 

tammuz

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
21 Oct 2011
Messages
28
BananaPancake a dit:
you act more childish than I thought you to be. may I remind you that I can see which IP you are posting from? and even without it it would be crystal clear who you are.

if you are so dedicated to transform the world through your lens of rage and negativity than go ahead and do something! why do you even bother with us? don't waste your energy on us. why would you sit on your ass and get hung up on strangers on the internet?

and "yeah, you do not get it at all" doesn't really qualify as a dialogue. that we act as a group may have something to do with the fact that we disagree with your way.

regardless of what IJC writes, maybe you should turn your eye on yourself for once. WAKE THE FUCK UP

Dude you are a fucking idiot.

I am his brother-in-law, if you must know, and yes, he has influenced me greatly.

you may also want to know that he said to me that he's done with the net, so, good job.

Don't bother replying to me, I won't be back.


carry on with your polemics.....

(IJS- he has known about proxies for many, many years, if he wanted to mask his IP, he would have)


au revoir
 

BrainEater

Banni
Inscrit
21 Juil 2007
Messages
5 922
man why don't you try to be nice to each other?

do you think projecting shit on each other will really help us?? why do we go against our own people??
i've seen similar things lately a lot... and it makes me sick...
can't you see that is how "they" (the government etc etc) play us out against each other???

why do you people think you need to force your perspective on others??
isn't that a good question??? haha... well some day... maybe you will be able to use your brains lol...
just joking hehe



peace!!!
 

zgoat69

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
2 Sept 2012
Messages
42
Someone touched a point earlier about the big question. What really IS right or wrong? If you have a stance one way or the other, then there is a positive stance and a negative one. No matter what side you are on.

I tend to lean toward a more Buddhist frame of mind. It is what it is. Everything is as it should be at this given time. We can promote change, but through our own actions. So many times (especially with religious groups), people preach and preach and preach, but, when put under the microscope, do not practice what they bark so loudly about. Do more, talk less. Complaining changes nothing. Do you feel better after doing so? Usually, but at the expense of all those who have to listen to you do it. is finding harmony in the chaos "turning a blind eye"?
 
Haut